Long before she found herself prosecuting the second-highest official in the country, Dinagat Islands Rep. Arlene “Kaka” Bag-ao (AB-POM ‘89) was already known for taking on entrenched power, both as a lawyer and, later, a lawmaker. Earning the nickname of “Dragon Slayer” after defeating the 12-year Ecleo dynasty in her home province, she carries that reputation in Congress, advocating for human rights, fighting political dynasties, and now, presenting evidence as a House prosecutor.
Amid one of the most consequential trials in Philippine history, the Lasallian Political Science alumnus sat down with The LaSallian between trial sessions to discuss the articles of impeachment, as well as the lessons that Bag-ao brings with her to the impeachment court.
The LaSallian: As a member of the prosecution panel, what are your specific responsibilities in building and presenting the case under these articles?
Bag-ao: Para kaming yung mga piskal sa isang kaso, at yung mga hukom, ‘yun ‘yung mga nasa Senado. So bilang prosecutor, ang pinaka-task is to establish na meron bang ebidensyaenough, na kapag napatunayan siya sa husgado, or if you can prove it in the courts, ay the person whom you are filing a case against ay mako-convict.
(We’re like the prosecutors in a case, and the judges are the ones in the Senate… As a prosecutor, the main task is to establish whether there’s enough evidence that, once proven in court, the person you’re filing the case against will be convicted.)
You have to remember that impeachment is not just a legal procedure, it’s also a political process. And because we are also part of the House of Representatives, we represent our constituents from different districts, from different regions, from different provinces.
The LaSallian: You filed the anti-dynasty bill alongside other House representatives. And before that, you were already known as a dynasty slayer when you defeated the Ecleo political dynasty in the Dinagat Islands elections. How did this experience inspire your proposed anti-dynasty provisions in Congress?
Bag-ao: When I ran for Congress, one of my reasons as a person who wants to join the government, who wants to become a leader of my province, is precisely to fight against political dynasty. We know its effect. We know that it’s very difficult in a system where dynasty is present, where the dad is the governor and the son or the daughter or the wife is a mayor or another holding another position. Another is that it becomes a business ng family.
One of the reasons why I was called a “dragon slayer,” because I was always competing against the same surname every election, and that family has been controlling the politics and the leadership and the development in my province.
If that happens, then all the others will have no opportunity to also participate in elections, because power, money, resources is centralized and is consolidated in just one family. Even farmers and fisherfolks, and women, children, and all other sectors should have the opportunity to also participate in governance and participate in election[s].
The LaSallian: You are also the author of the National Land Use Act, one of the longest pending bills in Congress. So what are the reasons for its long duration in legislative limbo?
Bag-ao: The National Land Use Act is a very comprehensive law. It’s supposed to address a lot of conflicts in land management, in claims over lands, in defining the priorities in the use of lands, in making sure that there is a framework in preserving different types of lands for survival of a community.
In fact, ilang beses na, I have been a committee chair in the land use committee. And during my time, years ago, we were even able to pass the bill on third reading in Congress. But [it] cannot proceed to the Senate because we have to have a consolidated law.
Hindi sila magkasundo sa mga probisyon na dapat nandoon sa batas at paano ba talaga sisiguraduhin na mapoprotektahan natin yung mga ibang-ibang uri ng lupain na dapat manatili para sa survival ng ating bansa. Marami ay mag-iinteres na bawasan ang agricultural lands para mas maraming matayong subdivision, o kaya ay bawasan ang forest lands dahil wala namang nakatira doon.
(They cannot agree upon the provisions that must be included in the law, and how to really ensure the protection of various types of land which must remain for the survival of the country. Many want to reduce agricultural lands to build more subdivisions, or reduce forest lands because no one lives there.)
I’m still very hopeful. Dahil sa nararanasan natin na mga ligalig na dulot ng pagkawala ng maraming nating natural resource base, unti-unting mamumulat ang mamamayan na hindi lang ito usapin ng magkano ang presyo ng bigas.
(Because of the troubles we’re experiencing from the loss of much of our natural resource base, the public is slowly becoming aware that this isn’t just about how much rice costs.)
The LaSallian: You got awards for being the counsel of the Sumilao farmers during their 1,700 km protest march in 2007 from Bukidnon to Malacañang. How did your experience as an alternative law practitioner shaping legal literacy among marginalized communities differ from your work as a legislator in the House of Representatives?
Bag-ao: My experience as a lawyer, as one of the lawyers of the Sumilao farmers who walked for 1,700 kilometers from Mindanao to Manila, influenced my life greatly—not only my work in Congress, but also my perspectives and my outlook as a person, as an advocate. The farmers actually encouraged me to join [the] government so that our advocacies: anti-political dynasty, the national land use, giving more access to credit to women and to poor families, will have an opportunity to become a policy.
Sabi nila, “‘Di kami lahat pwede mag-aral ng law eh. So, di kami lahat pwede tumakbo sa kongreso.” So, sabi nila, baka mas maganda kung tumakbo ka sa Kongreso kasi [ikaw,] pwede. Tapos, i-represent mo kami doon. Tapos ‘pag andoon ka na, sabi nila ay siguraduhin mo na mapapahatid ang ingay namin o ang mga pangarap namin sa pamamagitan mo doon sa bulwagan sa Kongreso.” So parang I’m trying to keep up with that promise.
(They said, “Not all of us can study law. So not all of us can run for Congress.” So they said, maybe it’d be better if you ran for Congress, since you can. Then, represent us there. And once you’re there, they said, make sure our voice, or our dreams, are carried through you into the halls of Congress.)
The LaSallian: Going back to the impeachment case, what evidence convinced you to support it?
Bag-ao: A very important piece of evidence that really pushed the House, not only me, but more than a majority of the members, is the unexplained wealth of the vice president. Parang it’s very scandalous to see a vice president who earns only this much, but has a lot of money or a lot of bank accounts [which are] unexplained. Another one is there were a lot of investigations conducted against transactions, in the management of her confidential funds as a DepEd secretary, in a lot of bribery arrangements just to make sure that what the Vice President wants, she gets.
And of course, coming from Lasallian education, where respect for individuals, respect for others, and respect for community is very important. Sa simpleng lengguwahe ay hindi ko ma-imagine na papayagan tayo ng mga La Salle Brothers na ang ating pamamaraan ng pakikipag-usap at pakikitungo sa kapwa ay pagmumura at hindi pag-respeto sa kapwa.
(In simple language, I can’t imagine the La Salle Brothers allowing us to treat and speak to others by cursing and being disrespectful.)
The LaSallian: What do you anticipate will be the most difficult legal or procedural challenge your panel will face during the trial? And how is the prosecution preparing for it?
Bag-ao: I think the problem is not so much the legal obstacles. Kasi when we filed the impeachment complaint, when we brought the case before the Senate, there is already an established presentation that if this case is litigated in the Senate, the allegations will be proven.
I think one of the challenges the prosecution will face is making sure that people understand what this is all about, and to whose benefit ‘yung effect ng impeachment will in the end be provided. [The] challenge is the right storytelling that should be done for the citizens. Because in the end, sila talaga ang kasali sa pagde-decide. Pwede ang Senate ang nagde-decide formally sa process of impeachment, pero in the end, ‘yung mamamayan talaga ang dapat mag-husga. Kasi ang pinapatunayan sa impeachment ay pagkawala ng tiwala ng mamamayan.
(Because in the end, they’re really the ones who take part in the deciding. The Senate may formally decide the impeachment process, but in the end, it’s really the public who should render judgment. Because what’s being proven in the impeachment is the public’s loss of trust.)
The LaSallian: Do you believe that your Lasallian education has influenced your perspective or processes when it comes to the case? And if so, how?
Bag-ao: ‘Yan ang isang pinaka-Miss Universe talaga na tanong. Tingin ko, ‘yung kabuuan ng pagkatao ko, ‘yung paniniwala sa accountability, yung paniniwala sa karapatan ng mamamayan, sa human rights, ‘yung paniniwala sa good governance, ‘yung paniniwala sa making sure that people are able to participate in decision making, are all influenced heavily by my education at De La Salle University. Doon ako natuto matulog kasama ng mga mangingisda.
(I think the whole of who I am, [including] my belief in accountability, my belief in people’s rights, in human rights, my belief in good governance, my belief in making sure that people are able to participate in decision making, all influenced heavily by my education at De La Salle University… That’s where I learned to sleep alongside fisherfolk.)
Mayaman si St. La Salle, pero nag-alay siya ng buhay niya para magbigay ng edukasyon para sa mahihirap. At ‘yung gano’ng klase ng inspiration ay parang nahihatid sa akin, bilang estudyante ng aking mga guro, naging basehan ng aking mga desisyon na ginagawa sa aking buhay araw-araw. I always make it a point to remember that all of the opportunities that I experienced, all the gifts that I got, my good education, the opportunities that I had because of my education, I should be able to return it.
(St. La Salle was wealthy, but he gave up his life to provide education for the poor. And that kind of inspiration was passed on to me as a student by my teachers, and became the basis for the decisions I make in my life every day.)
All the opportunities that I had… should be able to also provide opportunities for others who,like me, also come from a very small island, who thought that it would be enough to gather firewood so that we can cook our meals for tonight. Ang iisipin ko lang na ‘yung buhay ko sa isla, malaki pa pala, may Pilipinas pa pala, may mundo pa pala.At kailangan makibahagi ka sa mundo para magkaroon ng isang lipunan na karapat-dapat na tirahan ng lahat ng mamamayan.
(I would be able to realize that my life on a small island was actually something bigger. There’s still the Philippines, there’s still the world. And you must take part in the world to attain a society that all citizens can rightfully live in.)
The LaSallian: Can you tell us more about your time at De La Salle University and about what you consider to be your most memorable experience there?
Bag-ao: Nung nasa De La Salle ako, lagi lang naman ako tumatambay sa Chess Plaza. Pero dahil masyadong mahal ang pagkain do’n sa loob ng De La Salle, naging kaibigan ko ‘yung ibang mga Brothers na minsan ay nililibre ako, mismo doon sa Brothers’ quarters. Kasi isa ako doon sa mga nagla-lunch box at umuupo lang ako sa Marian Quadrangle. At doon kami kumakain ng tanghalian.
(When I was at De La Salle, I would always just hang out at Chess Plaza. But because the food inside De La Salle was too expensive, I became friends with some of the Brothers, who would sometimes treat me to free meals right at the Brothers’ quarters. I was one of those who brought packed lunches and just sat at the Marian Quadrangle. That’s where we’d eat lunch.)
Marami akong nakilalang Brothers na dinala ako sa mga exposure areas na pinupuntahan nila. Nagbibigay ang mga La Salle Brothers ng leadership training sa mga fisher folks. Lalo na, sumali ako sa COSCA. At doon ko unang narinig ‘yung salitang kapayapaan. Doon ko unang narinig ang salitang pakikilahok. Dinadala ako ng mga Brothers noon sa Laguna para magturo ng leadership sa mga fisher folks, kahit ang trabaho ko lang ay magbigay ng icebreaker.
(I met a lot of Brothers who brought me to the outreach areas they visited. The La Salle Brothers gave leadership training to fisherfolk. In particular, I joined COSCA. That’s where I first heard the word “peace.” That’s where I first heard the word “participation.” The Brothers used to bring me to Laguna to teach leadership to fisherfolk, even though my job was just to give the icebreaker.)
The LaSallian: Compared to other schools in the Big Four such as UP, UST, and Ateneo, La Salle is not known for having a culture of politics or activism among its students. What was the student body like during your time in La Salle?
Bag-ao: Nung nag-aaral ako, at ang major ko ay political science, bahagi ng aming classroom education ay mag-observe ng activities sa labas ng school. Sumali sa mga pagkilos o sa mga martsa para maintindihan mo ano ang sinasabi ng mga nandoon. At eventually ay nakikilahok ka na rin bilang mamamayan. So ‘yung pinaka-importante na natutunan ko noon, at center ng lahat ng activities ng Lasalyanong kapanahunan ko, ay ‘yun ay citizenship; active citizenship.
(When I was studying, and my major was political science, part of our classroom education was to observe activities outside the school. Join the protests or the marches to understand what the people there were saying. And eventually, you’d take part yourself, as a citizen. So the most important thing I learned back then, and the center of all the activities of my Lasallian era, was citizenship; active citizenship.)
Ang daming forum, ang daming mga discussions na nangyayari na in-organize ng mga student councils. Hindi ako nag-participate sa student elections, pero aktibo ako through COSCA, dahil bahagi ng aming engagement ay pagpapaintindi din sa mamamayan ng mga nangyayari sa experience na natutunan namin sa labas, kasama namin ang mga Brothers.
(There were so many forums, so many discussions organized by the student councils. I didn’t take part in student elections, but I was active through COSCA, because part of our engagement was also making the public understand what was happening, based on the experience we learned outside, together with the Brothers.)
The LaSallian: Beyond this trial, how do you think your identity as a Lasallian shapes the kind of legislator and public servant you aspire to be, especially in an era where public trust in institutions is at a low?
Bag-ao: ‘Yung tingin ko, ‘yung pagkawala ng tiwala ay bunga din ng maraming karanasan natin sa mga administrasyong dumaan. Pero nagkaroon din naman ng pagkakataong nagbigay sa atin ng pag-asa, lalo na noong panahon ni PNoy, nagkaroon tayo ng glimpse ng isang uri ng pamamahala na pwede nating pagbasehan. Para sa akin, ‘yun ‘yung halimbawa na ipinakita sa buhay ko, bilang leader ni President Noynoy Aquino. Naniniwala ako na dahil may mga ganyang leader na pwede kong tingalain, pati ang mga kasamahan ko dito sa Congress. Kaya may sense ang pagpasok ko rito, kahit hindi naman kami lahat pare-pareho ng uri ng pagkilos.
(I think the loss of trust is also the result of many of our experiences with past administrations. But there was also an occasion that gave us hope, especially during Pinoy’s time, we got a glimpse of a kind of governance we could use as a reference point. For me, that’s the example shown in my life by President Noynoy Aquino as a leader. I believe that because there are leaders like that whom I can look up to, along with my colleagues here in Congress, my entering this institution makes sense, even though we don’t all act the same way.)
Naniniwala ba ako na tama ang ginagawa ngayon ng gobyerno? Hindi rin naman. Marami pa ring kamalian, marami pa ring kailangang gawin para masiguro na nakakatulong tayo sa pagresolba ng mga problema ng mamamayan, dahil marami-rami pa rin ang naghihirap, at hindi natin pwedeng ihinto ang pagkilos. Hindi ako nagpe-pretend na alam ko ang lahat, pero baka kailangan lang nating i-redirect minsan ang ating mga prayoridad para lingunin ang mas maraming mamamayan na nangangailangan ng tulong sa atin. Iyan, para sa akin, ang pagiging totoong Lasalyano.
(Do I believe that what the government is doing right now is right? Not really, there are still a lot of mistakes, a lot that still needs to be done to make sure we’re actually helping resolve the public’s problems, because there are still so many people who are suffering, and we can’t stop taking action. I’m not pretending to know everything, but maybe we just need to redirect our priorities sometimes, to reach more of the people who need our help. That, for me, is what it means to be a true Lasallian.”)
This interview was edited for length and clarity.